During the pandemic, Société Générale's Swiss boss grappled with missing freighters, fizzled loans, and frazzled parents. Anne Marion-Bouchacourt tells finews.asia why she believes men in finance face an era of sacrifices.

Anne Marion-Bouchacourt, you spent six years in China before taking over in Switzerland in 2018. A culture shock? 

Each country has its own culture. In my view, the only way is to be open, adapt, and learn. Switzerland and China are extremely different of course, but there are characteristics they have in common.

For example?

It takes a lot of time to build trust with business partners in China. Everything happens through personal networks there because Chinese people have learned that they will not find protection in institutions in case of an emergency. So as a foreigner that means investing in relationships – similar to Switzerland. At least I have discovered that it takes quite a long time here as well to gain trust.

Covid-19 is that type of emergency. What were the last few months like for Société Générale in Switzerland?

Challenging in several ways. Dispatching all employees to work from home wasn't a problem in technical terms. We're accustomed to simulating crisis situations for preparedness. We also looked at the human aspect, which can be complex.

«Working more than ever in second wave»

Employees with young children: a nightmare. And those who live alone were effectively stranded: also a nightmare. We couldn't have predicted this.

What can you do as a CEO?

We offered webinars with psychologists who explained what is happening to us. We arranged for colleagues to contact employees who weren't doing well. Groups formed to meet outdoors to exercise. That helped – but it created a new problem.

Which is...?

During Switzerland's initial lock-down, everyone was in a state of shock, and productivity slowed. In the second wave, we were working more than ever. Because employees were at home, it is assumed they are available around the clock. I fielded calls from our Paris headquarters constantly because there was no travel into Switzerland in order to meet personally.

So as a boss you said, «please don't work too much»?

We gave our employees tips on favorable work-life balance: take an hour at lunch, don't eat at your computer, take coffee breaks – things like that. Since then we've established clearer points and procedures for working from home effectively. We also decided to harmonize work from home two days per week. 

Is there a user manual for granting a trade finance loan – a major business for Société Générale in Switzerland – from your kitchen table? 

I vividly remember one case last year when an international trade finance client went into insolvency. Several freighters loaded with cargo at sea suddenly belonged to us and we needed to take control of them.

«2020 was difficult for private banking industry»

We had to find people in harbors in Africa and in Asia to help us do so – one destination in Asia had also just been hit by a typhoon. Quite a challenge to organize all this from your dining room table!

Which you were able to do?

Yes, with a lot of effort and a bit of luck. It just goes to show that in exceptional circumstances, strangers can sometimes step up with a huge personal effort. We were able to avoid a loss for everyone involved.

What about Société Générale more broadly last year?

I can't divulge specific figures. Despite the volatile market environment and Covid-19, we ended the year favorably. The strength of our diversified model enables us to balance the effects from one business to another. We had good results in our trade finance and capital markets business, for example.

And in all our business areas, sustainable offerings are helping us develop. Clients are far more interested in this topic than previously.

What about private banking, which made waves in 2019 when the head of your Zurich business left with a team?

Last year was tough for this sector due to deleveraging of certain client portfolios. The positive factor is the momentum in our advisory business, and we're on track to profitability.

«We will need to give all top  roles to women for a time» 

To offer our clients innovative solutions and to strengthen the efficiency of our operational system, we outsourced our digital solutions and our back office to Azqore in Lausanne last year.

For your Swiss business as a whole: do you have to let staff go or are you hiring?

That depends on activity. In capital markets, we're definitely hiring. I believe we need to recruit locally. I want to be able to spend time with people and drink a coffee with them – that's how I believe you develop projects. We may keep recruiting in trade finance. In the other areas, we're where we want to be.

Last year, Société Générale hired Deia Markova to oversee trade commodity finance in Switzerland. The wider group wants at least 30 percent female representation in management by 2030. Will the bank achieve this?

CEO Frédéric Oudéa is very serious with this goal so my hope is we will reach it at the group level. We can only achieve it if we grant the few top jobs available to women. I saw this when I oversaw human resources for the group: I could do everything in my power to promote gender diversity – but at a certain level of hierarchy, the number of women begins to stagnate. 

Why?

Certainly not because men don't want to promote women. It's more to do with management: executives promote people who think like they do and who are efficient to manage.

«I was totally against quotas»

And because managers themselves are frequently men, there's simply not enough space for women. On the other hand, women can be perceived as more emotional or aggressive, though they are simply very engaged in the matter at hand. And it's true that when are career-minded, they are viewed as ambitious whereas with women it often carries a negative connotation. It's important to acknowledge these preconceived notions and we've done a lot to raise awareness of this. 

Is this why you are for quotas?

I was initially vehemently opposed to them but as I began to understand how promotions at upper levels of management play out, I realized that we will never reach the level of diversity we want without them. With 30 percent women, there would be enough representation for men to become accustomed to a more diverse organization and to alter their views.

What is the gender split like in Switzerland?

Management is half women and half men. I don't want to go any further than that in womens' favor. Diversity is about balance – the point is that different views and personalities counterpoise each other. We can only solve the hidden problems of our complex world in time this way.

What would you advise women in finance who have their careers ahead of them?

From my experience, I'd say dare to be ambitious. I was fortunate to have male managers who wanted me for the HR job. I was happy in my previous role at the time, but they almost forced me to put my hand up and volunteer. This may be what women in finance need most: more support from men.

Anne Marion-Bouchacourt has been CEO of Société Générale in Switzerland since 2018. Previously, she oversaw the French bank's activities in China for six years. She's worked for Paris-based SocGen since 2014, including as head of human resources and part of top management. The Zurich-based Swiss corporate and investment banking unit offers trade finance, capital markets business, custodian services, and cash management. SocGen also offers corporate banking. In Switzerland, SocGen earns five times the revenue with investment banking than it does with the other businesses.